Are there privacy online Left? What is the future?
A group of experts on what every Internet user should know
"online privacy" and " Internet Freedom "are the burning issues of our generation get support worldwide due to spy revelations of government, mass surveillance and data collection by enterprises. We all leave footprints online that can be tracked, and governments can now learn more about us through a digital research by a physical search of our homes. This panel will examine the current state of online privacy in the United States and the world, the conflict between government surveillance and national security, and the future in online privacy.
Speakers
Kevin Bankston
Kevin Bankston is the policy director of the Open Technology Institute at the New America Foundation, where he works in the public interest for a stronger and more open Internet, with a focus on issues of surveillance and Internet censorship.
Evan Greer
Evan is the combat campaign manager for the Future, an organization building a grassroots movement to ensure everyone can access the Internet at least cost, without interference or censorship and in full privacy.
Ali Sternburg
Ali Sternburg is political lawyer to Computer & Communications Industry Association, an international 40-yr-old nonprofit that represents Internet and telecom companies, dedicated to promoting innovation and competition.
Rep. Bryan Hughes
Bryan Hughes represents District Five in the Texas House of Representatives. He is a member of the Appropriations Committee and the Committee on Criminal Jurisprudence
Ron Yokubaitis
Ron is the co-founder and co-CEO of technology companies. Golden Frog, Giganews and Data Foundry Texas.net. Golden Frog was created to develop services that give people the opportunity to protect themselves online and access an uncensored Internet.
Moderate Panel by
Stacey Higginbotham
Stacey has covered technology and finance for 11 years for such publications as The Deal, Austin Business Journal, the Bond Buyer and BusinessWeek. At GigaOM, Stacey covers broadband infrastructure in the data center, policy and regulation, and entrepreneurs / startups.
Full transcript (Download PDF)
Ron Yokubaitis: Hi everyone, okay, if everyone knows - the bar is open, so have at it. My name is Ron Yokubaitis, and I am CEO of Co Golden Frog, Data Foundry, Giganews, and again. We're just here to talk more about taking your Internet back; it is ours, it is not for them, it is all of us and we happen to be in all of our 0 country more, so we all speak more than 0 countries and more. We opened this flow to our customer base is Golden Frog and Giganews in 195 countries which is more than 0. So when we want to greenfield sites and send e-mails to Congress critters we get German and French people say well, we 've been looking for a place to have a say.
So, this is the ideal place to have a place to have a say ya'll and we have people here who cared have played their part in keeping us free and open to the internet, so I would like to welcome you to Austin and all that happens here happens when SXSW is not here too. Anyway, Stacey Higginbotham of GigaOM will ride herd on everyone here and keep us in line, you keep all online; do not get too rowdy but noisy. Thank you all ... Stacey
Stacey Higginbotham :. Hi ya'll, and if necessary, I will translate the Texan for everyone to talk, it could happen, I do not know how you are local, but I tell y'all very much. I'll just tell you that this is not an assignment. Okay, fine. Okay, holy cow! I love you guys in the back that communicates. Can I work the low ratings, perhaps? Okay, you're right, okay, I'll introduce everyone very quickly; at the end we have Evan Greer's about - he has brought his fans -. It is the fight for the future
Then we have Kevin Bankston and it is with the New America Foundation, which is an organization that I am a big fan of. Then we have our host for the evening Ron Yokubaitis, and then we Representative Bryan Hughes, that is, you are Tyler and Longview Texas. All right, then next to me I Ali Sternburg straight and is with the computer and Industry Communications Association. Soon I will not have to see notes that we can just talk so I will not do it. Thank you guys so much for coming and we're going very fast kick with basically everyone talks following everything that happens with the NSA that we are all aware that actually the first ... will a little bit of nuance here just a little, privacy is just important?
We all yay privacy. How many of us allow the location on our cell phones? How often good people surf the web without using any kind of digital or VPN? You guys, is there a hash tag on twitter? Is it "take the Internet?" I will follow it on my phone and you guys are going to have to tweet things - not too much. We'll have to use Twitter for that all this is just finished. All rights so that you guys are very serious about privacy, except for some of you who are like me track Google, Apple follow me -. Whatever
Let's start with you guys talked ... they cut off my microphone. We'll run down and everyone give me your sense of how privacy is today in terms of people understand the issues and have access to private or non-life. So understanding how and access to privacy normal person
Evan Greer :. Well we certainly gained a much better understanding of the privacy we do or not this since June last year. I think that one thing we see is that people have a good understanding of what is happening with the NSA since this has been a hot topic with the media. But it is important that we connect with the other monitoring that lasts for years and years and recognize that much of this is not new and we really need to look at other government agencies, companies and individuals to outside the United States surveilling us.
as the protection of privacy is not to just fix one thing NSA fact, it is to change our whole culture of how we think about our data, how we think that we put out there in the world and if it is okay for people to aggregate and set us on the basis of the models in these data. I think it certainly is a better understanding and people learn things they can do, but I think we have a long way to go to connect it and get everyone to understand the big picture.
Kevin Bankston: cool, hi I'm Kevin and on a personal note, I just want to say I'm really happy to be back here. I live in DC right now, but I went to UT, I was not born here, but as the saying sticker I'm here as soon as possible and there's really no place I ' have never been happier than Austin, Texas. Where are we on privacy? I think we're in a bad way, but we are actually in a much better way than we have been. I come from a background, I worked with ACLU, EFF, the Center for Democracy and Technology and now New America so obviously I am currently working in each of them. If you found one in Austin let me know because I'd really like to come back.
Working in VET where we focused a lot on government oversight and the last time that the NSA surveillance program came to light in 05 06, we have spent years and frankly my friends back to the EFF are still beating their heads against the walls of secrecy surrounding the supervision of the NSA. It was an incredibly frustrating chore and to see the kind of valves open, for all those things we said is true - as indeed is the NSA tapped into our home network and just suck everything and run the odd filter on it. People were like, 'Where's your proof, where is your proof? "We finally have the evidence. We see a lot more transparency on the company, not only on the monitoring of national security, but on the regular monitoring of application of the law. Stuff we tried to get the reform years, either on the hill or here in Texas with some success, thank you Texas.
We finally see the big traditional media spend many resources trying to explain these issues to us. for example, as the Wall Street Journal, the multi-year "What do they know" series, sort of detailing all the different applications that leak information about you. I think we now know enough to know that we are in a very bad place, and that collective action is necessary to preserve our autonomy and our ability to maintain a certain level of privacy in our thinking, in our work, in our association as we move into a very exciting but pretty awful 21st century. This may not seem like a message of hope, but it really is, we know more than we have ever known before and we know more than ever how we must act and act now. That's where I think we are
Ron Yokubaitis: Thanks Kevin. Kevin and Fred Von Lohman work in VET, when he was at FEP and its work on freedom, liberty and emphasize all the shenanigans going on. Monitoring of us and of course Evan and Tiffany Chang in the struggle for the future of houses are the people who organize all the desperate groups on the net for e-bomb Washington. There was no respect for us, they could crush or whatever they wanted by SOPA, but these exciting rubble got their shovels and pitchforks in the street. Things get better because we all get more aware and focus light.
Sure, Hughes Representative from Texas, we worked on getting Texas to pass one bill that requires a search warrant for your content, your e-mail. This state contrary to what you read is really a haven of freedom because it is in the people. Ya'll do not realize, but these people here in Texas, we think a little differently, and we believe that we are open and free and we do not want anything getting in our agreement peppers? Representative Hughes, and some is the cabal in our legislature and it is Democrats and Republicans that happens, we have two lobbyists who really bent on it, good Republican and a good Democrat because we have to get people talking .
is commonness in all this, but anyway, and of course Ali is CCIA in Washington which is a group that we give to and work with. They are just public activists that many of the problems that they put behind the effort, we agree with; open Internet, this kind of privacy issues so that we get it down we did not get the big guy or the lady but we had Ali I depreciation, but there are some really giants in this organization. I'm so glad that Stacey will run the show and keep me from talking too much
Stacey Higginbotham :. Well, the state of privacy. Go for it.
Rep. Bryan Hughes Thank you. I have some good news for you; Parliament is not sitting so relax. Our founders gave us wisely this term of time we have been here for 140 days every two years, I know better if it was two days every 140 years I know. Then we go home and have to report on what happened and so good things happen, we are encouraged about it. This mandate content, e-mail, then Strickland change the Dallas area, Fort Worth a number of us have been working on this and we are very encouraged with that.
There is work to do, you were talking about location services, even with location services off, you probably know this, but the government can track you by your cell phone. Based towers illuminating you and repeaters and cell phone and all these devices there. They can get this data without a warrant, without probable cause, without even knowing they had or what they do with it, so we have work to do there. Texas has made progress that we had a bill in the house with more than 100 co-authors, has passed the house, did not quite get the senate; it takes some time in the Senate, sometimes we'll go back to them next time
We are encouraged together and what you said about the legacy of Texas. Again people tend to kind of broad brush of Texas politics, but people are big on freedom and liberty, and I mean, these are not only phrases. My friend Scott Henson pointed out to me that Texas was protecting its citizens from wiretapping decades before the federal government already thought about it. Because we believe in privacy and liberty and freedom here, so we hope to continue to go that way and I'm tickled to be on this panel and honored to be asked. Thank you guys
Ali Sternburg :. My fellow panelists made a great handling on the field work, but another thing I would say is that the companies we represent here today, which include Data Foundry and over 20 other companies. I think many companies were recognizing how much people care about privacy and have done much more transparent and offer more controls to the data of persons and other protections. In addition, there have been many more new companies coming out and you can really compete on privacy which I think is a very important thing.
This is another thing I would add is that there are different companies recognizing that these things are important and people will pay for different types of services and features on the programs that control their data. I agree with a lot of great things being said by the rest of the panel, and I also want to say that I've never been to an event, same every time I play music or talking to a group where everyone is paying attention much. It is amazing to see people actually looking; nobody watches their phones people are actually looking. This is amazing, so thank you for your attention, it is good to see that so many people care about privacy
Stacey Higginbotham :. We will share the microphone here. Okay so let's get it started with, I want to break this into two thoughts because I think it might be easier and it could be a natural breaking point. The first is government oversight; so that your rights under the rule of law with reinforcements as, search and seizure. The other thing is consumer surveillance and the concept of applications and data leakage etcetera and so, the government can assign and get this information, we can talk about that too. I think it's probably a good framework like you guys are discussing these issues in a way to make it very clear what you mean.
In this spirit, I would love you guys actually, maybe two or three of you, so give me a show of eyebrows or something that has a great history. I would like some examples of data loss and how it affects the consumer from the side of the application. Give me your eyebrows with a good story? The nodding along enthusiastically Evan so we'll give ...
Evan Greer I thought Kevin had a good which is why I nodded my
Kevin Bankston .: I work mainly on Government oversight me
Stacey Higginbotham :. Okay, we have no consumer side stories
Ron Yokubaitis: Let me say finally to the southwest, we had all boosts up this year, yet everyone was wanting to. Young children come to me with their latest social networking application and "Here try it free just put on your I Phone," I said.. "I do not want your fucking spyware on my phone" They looked quizzically me - that was before Snowden. I do not think I would get this quizzical look now free lunch bunch, I call them. The free breakfast on the Internet - there is no free lunch on the internet
There is a surveillance society that we have and these applications are watching you, so here it is free .. Think free, the price is very high, it is your freedom, it's your property because your information is the property and give it to you, it is very valuable. I think when the government does they take your property without due process, so we have a real problem Civil Liberties fifth amendment here, besides Fourth Amendment. You just have to realize how valuable you are, and what you think and what you do - enough said. South by Southwest is almost spent in a way that your privacy leak so be careful
Kevin Bankston :. I'll just add to that, there is a maxim there and I think it is very true, if you do not pay for the service, then you are the product. " Let your eyeballs are sold or information about you is sold in a way that the value resulting from what they know about you or what they know you do. So when you get a free service, it is really critical and I think a lot of privacy was thinking at the moment is to ensure that you actually know, what is the market you do. Why is it free? Why did they give me? What permissions do I give them as regards the sharing of my information?
One of the challenges we face and I think it is a very serious long-term challenge as all developers, FTC lawyers everywhere are trying to understand is, how do we actually you effectively warn the user of the information you share and when, when you are constantly installing new applications. You are clearly not going to read all the terms of service. In fact, there is a large study by a professor about as gauging how many hours it would take you to read all the terms of service you accept. It was something like a third of your waking life, I mean it was freaking crazy, and yet at the same time we do not want to say, "You can not do those agreements"
. I think one of the biggest challenges we face is how to ensure that everyone knows what they accept when they agree to that and I do not think anyone has a great response in yet. another thing, another difficult question is the answer can be just good to a paid service, because then you end up with a digital divide where poor waive their privacy while it is preferred that happen to afford to have privacy and that's not a good answer either
Stacey Higginbotham :. Kevin just took my point! I just wanted to raise that AT Austin & T launches possible gigabit service giga gigabit power, and they have a $ 20 if you let them watch and monitor your surfing habits. I have just been informed by ... Oh my gosh
Kevin Bankston :. AT & T does not want you to hear what she has to say
Stacey Higginbotham .: What most consumers as more than 75% of consumers are apparently choose the cheapest version. You can guess the ads on Kindle and get $ 20 off the Kindle that people will do. But it's a very good point is that we are moving towards an economy where you have to pay for privacy. My question for you guys as panelists to think that in Washington and state legislatures, what kind of reforms do we want to make privacy both more of a right, but also simply to ensure it is not something that people are rich can afford? How do you write the laws around this or regulations?
Rep. Bryan Hughes Thank you. My main concern was in the area of government follow us, invading our privacy, but this is a legitimate question and I think we'll find the answer in one - just not to say that because I'm sitting next to him, but Ron and his companies are doing. I think it's going to be a free market solution to this because everyone wants privacy and some are willing to pay for it, and some are more able to pay for it. You made a good point that we do not want it to be available only for the rich for the rich. I bet we have business people here and we have people who understand the free market.
If you want to make big money, make a product or service that rich people can afford and you will make money because there are many of them. But if you want to do much much much money you are making a product or service that ordinary people can afford, what they need and they want to make you really rich. The market will catch up if the government does not put up barriers. Let me digress for a moment, before I was elected, I assume that the business lobby and what we could say a trade association to a certain industry or a certain company lobbyist. I guess they come to us and say, "Representative we want free markets, we want low taxes, low regulation, you leave us alone"
Some of them do, but many. these people come to us and they say, 'we want you to pass this law makes people buy our product, or to set up tax our competitor, or give us the grant, "or ask us to come to regulate their industry to keep the little guys. If the government does its job if we do not get in the way, if we remain open and free market, the free market will respond, but we got to make sure that the government screws up, that's my opinion.
Stacey Higginbotham Any others? Go Evan
Evan Greer :. Of course, I think this is a super important issue and it has been said that if you want to know the future of surveillance, look past surveillance on poor communities and communities of color. Because people have known that for years of extremely tight manner and has very real consequences. I think it is important also because we often speak in abstractions when it seems that government oversight is frightening. There are not that creepy, it is tearing families apart is landing people in jail; it is having a real impact in our communities. We must recognize that and not only think of it as something that is a little scary, but something that is dangerous.
Now, as far as what we can do about it, I really think that clearly there are reforms we can push for it are necessary and they are sort of the rising tide that lifts all the boats. If we can raise the bar for privacy that will help everyone, but it disproportionately help those most heavily targeted by the surveillance. I think we can also work on this technology in the manufacture of cryptographic tools making tools that protect our privacy not only widely available and affordable, but also understandable and usable by the general public and not just by people who have a lot of technical skills.
I myself am not a technologist I work as an activist but I was able to learn this stuff by having people teach me. If we make it more accessible, we usable and we do a collective experience that not only I protect myself, but that each of us protect each other because there is safety in numbers. Most of us who use this type of tool, the less they can spy all us and the safer we all
Ron Yokubaitis :. Stacey, I would chime because I will not sound exactly, I'm not real concerned about the poor and the oppressed, for example. Even though my wife and I were Peace Corps volunteers and did it all at once. Because what characterizes old Joe six pack or José six pack is that they can buy a six pack and you can get a VPN service for the price of a pack of six months. Let's just put this in some kind of relativity and not make a new right to privacy other than the constitutional requirement that we have an expectation of privacy, as human beings of our government.
But not private monitoring by AT & T you do not have that right against private monitoring who your market is there, you do not buy it. Of course, we have no choice because of the duopoly, but what I will say is - for the six-pack, or whatever your favorite inebriant will soon be legalized. Anyway, it is accessible by everyone. I do not want to get distracted by the conversation all worrying about the last person on earth to get it. Get most of everybody in this room knows and begin broadcasting from there and maybe you'll find in your kindness to help someone turn them on. I'm not too real concerns, I mean this thing is pretty cheap, it is either beer or privacy - choose your choice
Kevin Bankston :.
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